Curse

MisterB · Jul 14, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

So I killed a fair few griffons with Cyclone Axe and Vigorous Spirit, and the heal used to trigger on each hit. Whirlwind Attack is basically the same skill as Cyclone Axe, but for any melee weapon. Cyclone Axe, Crude Swing, and Whirlwind Attack currently only trigger Vigorous Spirit once, no matter how many foes you hit. I understand that some of these skills function as a single attack that hits multiple foes, and I also understand that Vigorous Spirit is only supposed to trigger on attack, not hit, according to its description.

I am curious when Vigorous Spirit was changed, if someone could please point me to the relevant update.

I'll just list the skills I have tested for multiple triggers of VS:

Triple Chop: yes
Cyclone Axe: no
Crude Swing: no
Whirlwind Attack: no
Barrage: yes
Volley: yes
Incendiary Arrows: yes
Dual Shot: no
Triple Shot: no

There's not really any indication in the skills listed above why they would not trigger on attack effects.

If this thread is in the wrong spot, please move it.

IronSheik · Jul 14, 2009, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Mm, I always remembered them triggering on hit...weird barrage works and Cyclone/whirl don't anymore. I'm almost positive I farmed trolls ages ago like that.

Icy The Mage · Jul 14, 2009, 04:16 AM // 04:16

What about Live Vicariously, was that changed as well or have you not tested it as well? Cause I know for a fact that worked on multiple targets hit when cyclone axe was used...

MisterB · Jul 14, 2009, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyFiftyFive

What about Live Vicariously, was that changed as well or have you not tested it as well? Cause I know for a fact that worked on multiple targets hit when cyclone axe was used...

I ran the tests again, and all of the skills I listed trigger multiple heals from Live Vicariously, but that is to be expected as it states in its description it triggers on hit. Vigorous Spirit triggers on attack.

I tested all listed skills on barrels in Isle of Nameless and the first group of Griffons in The Scar.

Bob Slydell · Jul 14, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Looks like anet finally destroyed my favorite secret farming build. Was only a matter of time.

Dawn Angelheart · Jul 14, 2009, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Easy. why = Vigourous spirit "Each time you attack"
Live Vicariously "Whenever target ally hits a foe"

using an attack skill, is still only attacking once, but hits multiple foes.

whenver you hit.. .ie cyclone hits 10 foes.. 10 heals..

Bob Slydell · Jul 14, 2009, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Angelheart

Easy. why = Vigourous spirit "Each time you attack"
Live Vicariously "Whenever target ally hits a foe"

using an attack skill, is still only attacking once, but hits multiple foes.

whenver you hit.. .ie cyclone hits 10 foes.. 10 heals..

True, but it used to work.

miskav · Jul 14, 2009, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Used to be different *Remembers griffon farming in '05*

I Jonas I · Jul 14, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

They changed Vigorous spirit a while back from "gain health when target ally hits with an attack" to "gain health whenever they cast a spell or when they attack." This made it worthwhile to cast on everyone, as now spellcasters can benefit from the skill, but apparently it also made it not work for these farming builds

duckboy · Jul 14, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

aaah the old skill buff with hidden nerf switcharoo trick....nice 1

MisterB · Jul 14, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas The Keen

They changed Vigorous spirit a while back from "gain health when target ally hits with an attack" to "gain health whenever they cast a spell or when they attack." This made it worthwhile to cast on everyone, as now spellcasters can benefit from the skill, but apparently it also made it not work for these farming builds

No. Vigorous Spirit has always triggered "each time target ally attacks or casts a spell." Only the amount healed and cast time has changed significantly. At least it hasn't changed since I started playing in May '05.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/index.php...v&oldid=19 46

But until recently, skills which attack or hit multiple targets would still trigger the effects. I think the last time I used it was in June, to test out this, so I could contribute to the extermination of Balthazar's pesky Cave Spider infestation.

It appears that there was an undocumented update to Vigorous Spirit's functionality, or I've just missed it. Regardless, the attack skills could use some clarification if they are not supposed to trigger on multiple attacks, because none of them make that clear. They even imply multiple attacks in their description in some cases, not multiple hits, which seems to be what they actually do. Skills like Empathy and Spiteful Spirit, which also trigger on attacks, also only trigger once on some of these skills.

I'm really not bothered about the use of this skill in farming; I can do with or without it.

qvtkc · Jul 15, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Triple Chop: yes
Cyclone Axe: no
Crude Swing: no
Whirlwind Attack: no
Barrage: yes
Volley: yes
Incendiary Arrows: yes
Dual Shot: no
Triple Shot: no

Look at the skill descriptions.

Triple Chop: Attack target foe and adjacent foes. Each attack that hits deals +10...34 damage.

I other words, one attack per foe. So it triggers once per foe.

Barrage: All your preparations are removed. Shoot arrows at target foe and up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +5...17 damage if they hit.

Shooting arrow = attack. So one attack per foe, one trigger per foe.

Cyclone Axe: Perform a spinning axe attack striking for +4...10 damage to all adjacent opponents.

Only one attack (that hits everything around you), so only one trigger in total.

Note, only the full descriptions mention this. The concise ones doesn't.

MisterB · Jul 15, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Angelheart

Easy. why = Vigourous spirit "Each time you attack"

using an attack skill, is still only attacking once, but hits multiple foes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Look at the skill descriptions.
-snip-
I other words, one attack per foe. So it triggers once per foe.
-snip-
Shooting arrow = attack. So one attack per foe, one trigger per foe.

Please read the description for Dual Shot and Triple Shot.

Only one attack (that hits everything around you), so only one trigger in total.
-snip-
Note, only the full descriptions mention this. The concise ones doesn't.
I don't even want to start commenting on concise descriptions. Just look at Barrage, for example. In concise, it only mentions damage, and multiple hits, not multiple attacks, which makes trying to understand skill interactions worse.

I'm puzzled why you two are telling me to read and offering explanations unless you did not actually read all of the first post. I presume you replied only to the list. I'll just quote myself from the first post:

Quote:

I understand that some of these skills function as a single attack that hits multiple foes, and I also understand that Vigorous Spirit is only supposed to trigger on attack, not hit, according to its description.

My point is that Vigorous Spirit has triggered on many of the skills I listed for up to four years, but now it does not. I saw no update notes reflecting this, so for now, I'm considering this an undocumented change.

qvtkc · Jul 17, 2009, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

I'm puzzled why you two are telling me to read and offering explanations unless you did not actually read all of the first post. I presume you replied only to the list.

Sorry. I make a point of only skimming posts that are longer than 2-3 lines.

Anyway yes, it's odd that Dual/Triple Shot doesn't work like Volley or Barrage does. Maybe it only counts the number of enemies you attack, not the actual arrows you shoot. And yes I'd say it's an undocumented update too, or rather a bug fix.